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Niva 4x4
Lada Niva owners club. Founded by
Ermolov Aleksei Igorevich, aka ALER
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Гость

Reg.: 12/6/2004
Topics / Posts: 627 / 51708

7/13/2006, 8:58 AM +04
Hi comrades.

This theme is getting longer than life and I've been writing some stuffs about this matter.

As everybody here knows, the niva's wheel axles are 26 splines and because of this and axle thickness, I don't think that a limited slip or a locking diferential can me suited on niva's diferential. Let's hear about everyboy have to tell about this point.

The other stuff, one very important, is about to lift the niva using it's own frony suspension, but it compromises the front diferential case as we were talking on the other post.

All the points and stuffs are very important here, because this job can't me taken as easy. It doesn't looks hard, but it have a great difficult grade on.

I've seen a lot of pictures from Russia about lifted nivas. One is lifted over a UAZ chassis, don't know wich UAZ model is, with axles and (I think so) engine, gearbox with transfer and drive axles with leaf suspension.

One other stuff here is the suspension, as we all know, the coil suspension is better, because is softer than leaf suspension and the vehicle can reach more deep on the road than leaf suspension.

Other thing that we can do here is adapt axles from other vehicles.

Well I thing the begining of this matter has begun on the other post.

What do all of you thing about this?
We can add more ideas to this.



Cheers!
maddrive

Name: Алексей
Reg.: 12/12/2004
Topics / Posts: 4 / 1551
From: Москва
Age: 43
Car: 21213, 97 г.; TLC105

7/13/2006, 9:32 AM +04
Anel Some guys here say Chevy-Niva (2123) front axles and differential case seems to be a good solution. They say they can handle higher loads... However, the bad news is that due to the increased number of splines you also need to install 2123 hubs and axle drive pinions (or the whole front diff case). 2123 diff case mount differs from 2121, so one will need to buy some additional parts too. Have a look at the following links:
http://acat.autodealer.ru/index.php?tree=18_14775
http://acat.autodealer.ru/index.php?tree=18_14774

1920см², MPSZ-II, ComeUp 6000s, KYB UltraSR, 95Ah, Беркут R20, лифт, ГП 4,3, Cooper STT PRO 31x10,5, СРПМ:VR 6кг, РЗМ: жёсткая
Гость

Reg.: 12/6/2004
Topics / Posts: 627 / 51708

7/14/2006, 4:28 AM +04
By the times I read specificcations of the 2123, I thought that every niva model use the same differential cases just changing the supports.

Well, that's a nice solution.

I might possible adapt dana differentials to my niva or mount the niva over a chassis and fit a 4.3L V6 chevrolet engine with a T5 gearbox and a dana 300 transfer case with a couple of GM 14 bolts differential with 10.5 and 9.5 ring gears.

This one sounds like a, other world beas, don't you think?
maddrive

Name: Алексей
Reg.: 12/12/2004
Topics / Posts: 4 / 1551
From: Москва
Age: 43
Car: 21213, 97 г.; TLC105

7/14/2006, 4:59 AM +04
Anel You're right, the differentials are more or less the same. The difference is in axle drive pinions with more splines and support. I just mentioned 2123 diff case here... The main idea was that 2123 axles are stronger, but some changes are to be made in order to install them.

1920см², MPSZ-II, ComeUp 6000s, KYB UltraSR, 95Ah, Беркут R20, лифт, ГП 4,3, Cooper STT PRO 31x10,5, СРПМ:VR 6кг, РЗМ: жёсткая
Гость

Reg.: 12/6/2004
Topics / Posts: 627 / 51708

7/14/2006, 6:21 AM +04
Ok Maddrive, how many splines and diameter are the 2123 wheel axles compared to 21213 wheel axles?

Also I was reading last night that there, in Russia, are making LSD for the niva?

The prices listed are a little bit high, but it would be a nice piece to have.
maddrive

Name: Алексей
Reg.: 12/12/2004
Topics / Posts: 4 / 1551
From: Москва
Age: 43
Car: 21213, 97 г.; TLC105

7/14/2006, 7:10 AM +04
Anel There are 24 splines in new axles. Here is the official information from VAZ: http://www.niva-faq.msk.ru/tehnika/obsch/infoVAZ/25_2004.htm
Don't know nothing about the thickness of 2123 axles... I suppose, engineers at VAZ would prefer to reinforce steel rather than making them thicker. Anyway, people who are driving madly say they are just allright [:)]

1920см², MPSZ-II, ComeUp 6000s, KYB UltraSR, 95Ah, Беркут R20, лифт, ГП 4,3, Cooper STT PRO 31x10,5, СРПМ:VR 6кг, РЗМ: жёсткая
Гость

Reg.: 12/6/2004
Topics / Posts: 627 / 51708

7/16/2006, 7:43 PM +04
So, if those axles are 24 splines, then the 21213 axles are more thicker. They're 26 splines; but the question I have, if the axles can support a limited slip or full locking differentials?

I don't take much care on my niva when driving. This is a fine vehicle that was made to be tough like steel on any road, even on muntains and specially on mud.

Then, there's completely no problem to fit limited slip differential to the niva? By four knowledge, of course.


Cheers up!!!

Posted after 55 seconds:
Anel:
By four knowledge, of course.
Sorry, by your knowlegde.
maddrive

Name: Алексей
Reg.: 12/12/2004
Topics / Posts: 4 / 1551
From: Москва
Age: 43
Car: 21213, 97 г.; TLC105

7/16/2006, 11:42 PM +04
Anel An LSD can be installed in both front and rear diff cases. However, most people prefer installing it into rear one as its steel case is more reliable.

1920см², MPSZ-II, ComeUp 6000s, KYB UltraSR, 95Ah, Беркут R20, лифт, ГП 4,3, Cooper STT PRO 31x10,5, СРПМ:VR 6кг, РЗМ: жёсткая
Гость

Reg.: 12/6/2004
Topics / Posts: 627 / 51708

7/16/2006, 11:55 PM +04
OK.

Thanks for the info.

Some experiment will be going on on my niva to see how strenght and durable are the wheel axles with a full-locking differential or welded satellite gears.
maddrive

Name: Алексей
Reg.: 12/12/2004
Topics / Posts: 4 / 1551
From: Москва
Age: 43
Car: 21213, 97 г.; TLC105

7/17/2006, 1:13 AM +04

Вкратце: тема о ШРУСАх старого и нового образца. Anel хочет поставить самоблок в передний мост, соответственно интересуется что да как. Я написал, что новые ШРУСы по словам ряда людей попрочнее, но для их установки нужно много чего менять - шестрени привода в диффе, ступицы. Сказал, что самоблок лучше ставить назад, т.к. там жедезный корпус, да и нет шрусов.

1920см², MPSZ-II, ComeUp 6000s, KYB UltraSR, 95Ah, Беркут R20, лифт, ГП 4,3, Cooper STT PRO 31x10,5, СРПМ:VR 6кг, РЗМ: жёсткая
Гость

Reg.: 12/6/2004
Topics / Posts: 627 / 51708

7/17/2006, 8:06 AM +04
Right now I possible buy another niva and that is going to be lifted.

About the differential, of course that rear differential is more harder than front diff.

The experiment I want to do is to weld the satellites sprockets and test it on in-road and off-road.

I asked a friend in the USA about to equip a full time 4wd vehicle with a LSD of full locking diff, ald he told me this afternoon that the car will be harder to drive and the steer will be much harder than usual and the vehicle will turn wherever it goes because of the differential.

That's the answer of him.

Lock on rear and leave free on front.



Cheers.
maddrive

Name: Алексей
Reg.: 12/12/2004
Topics / Posts: 4 / 1551
From: Москва
Age: 43
Car: 21213, 97 г.; TLC105

7/17/2006, 8:22 AM +04
Anel I strongly recommend you NOT to weld satellites. Never. Even if the car will never leave mud. LSD in rear diff seems to be the best solution.


Anel пишет, что хочет заварить дифф, чего я ему делать категорически не советовал. Говорит, что лифтовать он собирается новую Ниву, которую ещё не купил.
Друг в штатах сказал есму, что машина с самоблоком или заваренными сателлитами в разы хуже на дороге.

1920см², MPSZ-II, ComeUp 6000s, KYB UltraSR, 95Ah, Беркут R20, лифт, ГП 4,3, Cooper STT PRO 31x10,5, СРПМ:VR 6кг, РЗМ: жёсткая
Гость

Reg.: 12/6/2004
Topics / Posts: 627 / 51708

7/18/2006, 5:13 AM +04
OK.

Thanks for the advice.

Now I'll be lifting my niva and later I'll be thinking about the LS.

Now, to move a set of 33x12.50R15 MT tires on the niva, wich kind of differential ratio I have to fit in?

I'll be lifting my car about 8-12 inches high.
maddrive

Name: Алексей
Reg.: 12/12/2004
Topics / Posts: 4 / 1551
From: Москва
Age: 43
Car: 21213, 97 г.; TLC105

7/18/2006, 5:28 AM +04
Anel [:shock] Are you sure about 8-12 inches? I just can't understand how this can be possible with Niva's front suspension. I have 2.5'' lift and consider it is on the edge...

I've never dealed with diff ratios before, but I think you'll need something about 5.1


My translation of you post into russian:

Спасибо за советы. Я сначала лифтану свою Ниву, потом подумаю о самоблоке.
Чтобы поставить 33'', какие ГП мне стоит установить?

Лифтоваться буду на 8-12 дюймов.

Мой ответ: ты уверен пр 8-12 дюймов? Не могу уяснить, как такое возможно на штатной Нивовской пер. подвеске... У меня 2,5 дюйма лифт и то уже на грани...

Никогда сам не сталкивался с заменой ГП, но думаю, что что-то в районе 5,1 будет тебе в самый раз.

1920см², MPSZ-II, ComeUp 6000s, KYB UltraSR, 95Ah, Беркут R20, лифт, ГП 4,3, Cooper STT PRO 31x10,5, СРПМ:VR 6кг, РЗМ: жёсткая
Гость

Reg.: 12/6/2004
Topics / Posts: 627 / 51708

7/18/2006, 8:15 AM +04
The red niva on the article I wrote, also if you wish I pass you a copy of it, have almost 12 inches higher than standart niva.

Do you see on this picture how much does this niva is lifted?
And there was equipped with 31x10.50R15 MT, now having 32x11.50R15 MT.

Now you see what I refeer?

More of this?

Tell me where to send you the article, wich is written in spanish.


Cheers!

Posted after 1 minute 42 seconds:

I forgot, this niva have 4.10 differential ratio and walks like hell everywhere.
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Niva 4x4 / Нивовод нивоводу — брат / World Wide Niva / Lifting the niva